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When it comes to school safety, waiting for an explicit threat or a visible crisis is often too late. True prevention can start much earlier, by identifying unmet needs, recognizing isolation, and building an ecosystem that fosters genuine connection.
In this episode of The Changing Face of School Security, host Paul Timm sits down with school safety and behavioral threat assessment expert Dr. Bruno Dias, former DHS associate director and safety consultant with Key Operational Insights, to discuss proactive strategies for disrupting pathways to violence before a crisis occurs. Together, they explore early intervention techniques, the dangers of rapid online radicalization and how educators can build a comprehensive, collaborative safety culture in schools.
Read the Q&A below:
Paul Timm: Interrupting the pathway is a term that you've used before. Help us understand a little bit more about what that means.
Bruno Dias: People often think about the pathway to violence, which is pretty common with the threat assessment field. But I'm really talking about this trajectory towards violence. And it may not be as structured as it is presented by the pathway. So, people become hyper-focused on grievances where that may not be the case. It could be something like unmet needs. And there's plenty of opportunities for us to be proactive and get ahead of that. We don't have to wait until you reach that end of the pathway, until violence becomes very clear. We need to become more proactive at disrupting it early on.
Timm: Said sometimes entities that have a threat assessment team can make a mistake of focusing on threats. What do you mean by that?
Dias: People think that to start inserting these protective functions, these support systems, I need to wait until there's a threatening situation. And I think we need to rewind that a little bit more. If we know that disconnection, isolation are some of the drivers, we need to start inserting these protective factors early on before a threat is ever made. If you see a kid sitting alone in the cafeteria, perhaps that would be a good intervention opportunity rather than waiting until that matures or evolves into a threatening situation.
Timm: What are some of the common pitfalls that you might encounter?
Dias: If you just go back and you look at any past school tragedy, and you start trying to find these common themes, what you're going to find is this: there was either overreaction where there were policies where every threatening case [results in] expulsion, or some kind of punitive action, or law enforcement involvement.
And under-reaction where, maybe you haven't really evolved, and you decided you got to wait until a crime is committed or until a situation is very serious and the response to that is often too late. Or you do what we call unstructured, "watch and wait," meaning, maybe you feel like you don't have enough, so you want to [say], we've got this potential concern, let's just watch and wait and see what happens. But that's not being done in a structured way, and that causes problems.
Timm: A term you've used is, "sprint to radical views." Please tell us what that means. Is it encompassing something here that's happening more regularly?
Dias: Yes. It's probably one of the most significant challenges facing school officials now. I think it's potentially a side effect from COVID-19. We changed the structure of schools, something that we had been doing for over 100 years. We pushed kids into online environments. And the social impact of that is becoming very clear now because we're seeing kids who are going online. It could be for benign reasons, but then they're redirected through connections to other places that are more menacing, and they are identifying with previous school attackers and adopting ideologies. They're borrowing their ideologies. And this is happening rather quickly, whereas with traditional radicalization, usually it takes time. It is a "sprint" because this can happen in a matter of days or weeks.
Timm: You also have expertise in what's known as "true crime community." Tell us a little bit about what is going on there.
Dias: A lot of times people associate the true crime community with TV. We are interested when something shocks the conscience of society, and we try to understand why, and try to learn. And that can be very benign.
There are two tiers. You have the "fandom" tier where young people are going online, and they're getting interested in previous attackers. They are trying to find out what their thought process was, what their situation was like, and what the dynamics were with that individual. And they find that to be very interesting. So, they're on the "outside." So, if this was a stadium—sometimes I use the analogy of a track field. They're in the bleachers, that's the "fandom" base.
But to some, especially people who are at risk, they decide, "this attacker is just like me." They're isolated, and they start saying, that's my "in" group. And they may take it upon themselves to leave the bleachers, get in that track, pick up the baton, and take that further. And they do that through violence.
Timm: How might school administrators, school resource officers, and other stakeholders like teachers and social workers recognize something like this? And if they do, how would they respond?
Dias: It's important to get back to the basics. Hallway time, eye contact, building relationships, and finding out what each student's baseline is. Become a little bit more curious. We're so busy, and there's so much stuff going on in schools and in classrooms. There are a lot of pressure points that educators face every day. But getting back to the basics and building relationships with students is important.
Timm: When you were a safety director, you said it was super important that you have a plan. What would be in that plan?
Dias: People look for the "easy button." And a lot of times it comes in the form of physical security. Physical security is really important, but it can't do the job alone. There's no panacea for school safety. You need a collective. If you install door locks—which is a basic function to protect classrooms—but you leave that classroom door open or you prop the classroom door, that means you don't have a collaborative safety and security culture because that person is now defeating the process.
You need to have a collaborative safety and security culture. You need to have prevention capabilities. That's where behavioral threat assessment and management comes in. You need to have good emergency management because bad things can happen despite best efforts, and you need to be able to respond to that in a way that's defensible.
You need to have plans for law enforcement and when to involve law enforcement and create this threshold. Having components working collectively forms this ecosystem—a safety and security ecosystem.
Timm: If schools want to be better informed on safety, what resources would you point them to?
Dias: Leverage your network. I think that's a very basic component. When I transitioned from corporate security to school safety, one of the very first things I did was look to see who's doing this well. I didn't want to start at a zero point. I wanted to know what resources they have, what they are doing, what works, and what doesn't work. Time talking with someone who's willing to share really helped progress my advancement. Leveraging the network—it's usually free, it's accessible, and it's actionable.
Timm: Are there any overarching resources besides networking that would cross beyond just the state?
Dias: The Secret Service National Threat Assessment Center, the US Department of Homeland Security, and National Threat Evaluation and Reporting Program offer threat assessment studies and resources and training at no cost. Also, SchoolSafety.gov and the Federal Repository.
Timm: Over the last couple years, what are some of the significant changes you've seen in school safety?
Dias: It's recognition that it's a non-negotiable. Without school safety, you don't have anything. And if you fail at school safety, it can impact the school climate, the reputation, and also funding because people may withdraw students or not enroll them. The recognition that safety is a required and basic component is probably the most significant one. Sadly, it came from responding to tragedies rather than doing it proactively, but we are moving in the right direction. And it's becoming more professionalized. I think that's a key component.
Timm: What are some of the changes you expect to see in school safety in the next couple of years?
Dias: We're seeing a significant change in accountability. We're seeing that teachers, parents, even SROs are facing prosecution for going back to the three components—either overreaction, underreaction, or inertia, not doing enough. And I think expectations are going to continue to grow, especially when warning signs are present, and you didn't do enough.
Also, some challenges—I'm very concerned with AI. A lot of threats can be thwarted because as humans, we are biologically predisposed for communication. We go online, we say things, we disclose. If I'm disclosing that to a chatbot, we may lose visibility. Then, our ability to thwart these cases may diminish, and I'm concerned about that.
*The opinions or views expressed by guests on this podcast are solely their own and do not necessarily reflect or represent those of Allegion or its employees. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to be a substitute for obtaining your own advice.
Key Takeaways:
Connect with Dr. Bruno Dias
Dr. Bruno Dias, PhD, CTM, PCI, is a nationally and internationally recognized expert in violence prevention, with deep expertise in policy, risk mitigation, safety, security, and behavioral threat assessment and management (BTAM). His distinguished career spans public safety, corporate security, the education sector, and federal government service.
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